#Recap Eden Member group (WK35) posted Sunday 2022-09-04

#ENF_interview : https://t.me/c/1186628781/35132 : “Strong interview by BigBeardSamurai, good one to take in when time allow!” - https://youtu.be/FCOyKlSBkKg - “” Huobi X-Change invited Yves La Rose, EOS Network Foundation CEO, who share the topic titled “The New EOS – 1 Year Anniversary of the EOS Network Foundation” “”

#Eden_Hypha : https://t.me/c/1186628781/35136 : “Here is the recording link to the call yesterday with Joachim from Hypha. . “ - “” This Hypha DAO instance doesn't have a USD treasury, so picking 100% option for deferred for now.””

#Eden_Hypha : https://t.me/c/1186628781/35133 : “If you're looking to join the Eden community on Hypha, this link should get you going. Once you've signed up please let me know here or PM so I can approve it, then full access: . . “

#Eden_Fractal meeting #13 : https://t.me/c/1186628781/35153 : 31 Aug 2022 : https://youtu.be/eQHP3BHo04Y : “ Come participate by joining the Eden Discord Server https://discord.gg/cnhQWk7rXm “

#Eden_Fractal : https://t.me/c/1186628781/35160 : “NovaCrypto LTD interview Dan Singjoy of Eden ƒractal - “Empowering Eden Contributors”. Part of EOSIO Swiss Workshop 15 - August 23rd, 2022” - https://youtu.be/dFLPEADj65w all timestamped”

#Eden_Proxy : https://t.me/c/1186628781/35163 : “The Eden on #EOS Proxy has just been updated...real humans providing real rankings.” - https://twitter.com/EOS_EdenProxy/status/1566061285506252801

#Chief_Delegates_meet : “EdenOnEOS Chief Delegate Meeting #8 – September 4th, 2022 - https://odysee.com/@EdenonEOS:f/Eden-on-EOS-Chief-Delegate-Meeting-8-:4

= END =

#Recap Eden Member group (WK36) posted Monday 2022-09-12

#Governance : https://t.me/c/1186628781/35167 :
--M1-- : “Good governance system does not mean good outcomes - Any governance process, regardless of how good and fair the system is, can only be as good as a community of individuals that runs it.“ - https://peakd.com/fractally/@sim31/good-governance-system-does-not-mean-good-outcomes
--M2-- : “Nice article. I think one factor is how many people in community are good. I think people turn good from “bad”. I think vice versa is only true in the movies.”
--M1-- : “I disagree, I think people turn from good to bad sometimes. Well, at least in the eyes of others.”

#Public_info_update needed : https://t.me/c/1186628781/35193 : “As I understand things currently only the Bylaws to follow. The Peace Treaty no longer in effect. There is a need to update erroneus information from public sites.”

#Eden_Fractal_consensus : https://t.me/c/1186628781/35228 :
--M1-- : “Talking about consensus process proposal for EdenFractal: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Cr7AJPSNVpGJtYejeo0YaVyLXL1KtrTH/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=104193210757363607373&rtpof=true&sd=true
---M2-- : “The main concern is that community members have the chance to read any [meaningful / long-lasting] proposal free of any emotional manipulation (intended or subconscious). Thus, any amount of time that allows for . . “

#Eden Values : https://t.me/c/1186628781/35230 : “Feel free add to this list as long as it is not a synonym of those mentioned : - Participation, - Responsibility, - Consensus, - Trust, - Reliability, - Charity. If you agree with these, please simply give a thumbs up.”

= END =

#Recap Eden Member group (WK41) - Sunday 2022-10-16 (2 of 2)

#Eden_Community : https://t.me/c/1186628781/36881 : “Was telling some of WAX game community today how there was EOS and many of the wise idealists that led us to now are still here and around. Have invited . . . “.

#Eden_Fractal : https://t.me/c/1186628781/36900 : QUESTION: “Are Eden Fractal and Eden separate? Why?”
--CD1-- : “I don't consider them as totally separate. I see the eden fractal as a feature to EDEN. They use a different smart contract for example”
--M1-- : “I think so. I never signed up or agreed to be a member of Eden fractal, so I don't consider my self a part of Eden fractal. - “”But same as I belong to EOS Support and I am a member of this community, some belong to the Eden fractal, HyphaDAO, Edenia or to the EOS Bees and are a part of this community.””
--CD2-- : “Eden Fractal is a project that some Eden members participate in that uses a variant of the Eden election process. There is nothing official about it as it relates to Eden members, other than some Eden members have and are running on supporting this project and using their Eden Delegate funding to do so.”
--CD3-- : “The way I am viewing our progressive development is as an Eden Ecosystem. Where all of these different Edens will form and fit under separate umbrellas of Eden DAOs and Sub DAOs(circles) depending on the end goals.”

= END =

All the ingredients for success and massive showing of support is here.””

#Delegate_Funds expiry : https://t.me/c/1186628781/37390 :
--CD1-- : “As a Delegate/Chief Delegate, should the ability to claim your allocated funds expire if not claimed by the end of the term?”
--CD2-- : “The Chiefs are considering expiring the funds after 2 terms of not claiming. Thoughts?”
--M1-- : “Believe a good change to make and same time put in that if a member miss 2 elections in a row, without justifiable excuse, then loose membership or similar.”
--M2-- : “Sounds like a micromanagement nonsense to me. Maybe you can expire it in half a year or something when you can consider it abandoned job, but no point in limiting it to the term.”

#Eden_White_List : https://t.me/c/1186628781/37076 : “Current whitelisting solutions are inefficient because users need to signup/do action for every drop and across each collection. EDEN can act as a decentralized white list if marketplaces implement this code https://github.com/edenia/eden-member-check“  -  “NFT creator on WAX is interested in exploring a decentralized whitelist solution for his community members and other creators. EDEN can provide this solution because we are good at validating unique humans on-chain.”

#Eden_Membership : https://t.me/c/1186628781/37134 : “Who wants to talk about email? - https://t.me/c/1186628781/35990 - Are folks opposed to using email? - https://t.me/c/1186628781/37150 - Do we want to be reached via a direct means of communication, which we would presumably be expecting since we have opted in, with occasional messages which transcend the noise of a telegram chat? Communications that are rare enough, and important enough that you look at the sender and think to yourself, hey here's a message from this organization I belong to, I can see that in the From field, let me have a look. Or, is there a suitable alternative?  Because clearly Telegram isn't it.”

#Web_Hosting : https://t.me/c/1186628781/37306 : “EDEN community, This is an official statement for requesting proposals to run web hosting OPEX for EDEN on EOS. The Chief Delegates will be accepting proposals through October 31 2022.” – “#Edenia can provide some insight into what’s needed.  Open to chat in the spirit of collaboration. The more teams that can run EdenOS, the more resilient we become as a community!  Here is a start: https://github.com/edenia/eden“

#Eden_Fractal 19 meeting Oct 12 : https://t.me/c/1186628781/36990 : “The momentous first meeting with the Eden + Fractal process! - https://youtu.be/XsznxqL4t7U“  -  “” https://youtu.be/XsznxqL4t7U - Empowering communities with processes of ƒractally on EOS!””  

= END =

#Eden_Fractal meeting 20 on Oct 19th : https://t.me/c/1186628781/37445 : “An awesome meeting with many new people, great networking experiences, and synergies with Alien Worlds! - https://youtu.be/mY2RCCaKWzA“

= END =

#Recap Eden Member group (WK44) - posted Sunday 2022-11-06

* #Author_Comments: Protection against sybil attacks continue as main topic, best read in full context in Eden Member group itself Here only few snippets." *

#Eden_Bylaws adopted : https://t.me/c/1186628781/38390 : 2022-11-30 - “The CD ratified our bylaws on Friday's livestreamed meeting. Here are those bylaws: … “

#Sybil_Protection : https://t.me/c/1186628781/38394 :
--CD1-- : “Approaching the above discussion from a lens of "what type of culture are we creating here" e.g. "why are people currently attracted, and will continue to attract people to participate here. Current working proposal: Only … “
--CD2-- : https://t.me/c/1186628781/38477 : “Here is a flow chart describing the new layout to achieve a sybil protection offering for other projects.”

#Eden_Spark : https://t.me/c/1186628781/38433 : “Our weekly call in Eden - Spark, any member of the hispanic community (or not) is welcome. - Punto de Encuentro de la Comunidad Hispana de la cadena de EOS, La infraestructura más poderosa para aplicaciones descentralizadas para empresas.- https://t.me/eos_espanol”

#Eden_Website : https://t.me/c/1186628781/38441 : “Current layout of website im working on as seen in our meeting #4 video. If anyone has any suggestions or changes please DM or @ me.”

#Eden Chief_Delegates-meet #4 : https://youtu.be/HcNe1kXHWW0 : "Streamed live on 4 Nov 2022. Discuss Eden on EOS Governance. To find out more about Eden Up-Vote election process, visit 🌐 https://www.edenelections.com/"

#Eden_Fractal time change? : https://t.me/c/1186628781/38430 : “The Eden community is considering changing the time of weekly meetings. This article includes proposals and reasons to change the time. https://edencreators.com/time“

#Eden_Fractal meeting 21 : https://t.me/c/1186628781/38429 : Nov 02, 2022 - “Discussions about agendas, proposal protocols, legal entities, agreements, and new insights from people in the WAX community ... - https://youtu.be/7MQ3arHfj10“

= END =

#Recap Eden Member group (WK45) - posted Sunday 2022-11-13

* #Author_Comments: #68M and related MSIGs discussed but not covered here except for the #Eden_Poll.*

#Eden_Chief_Delegates-meet No.5 - Nov 11, 2022 : “Eden Chief delegates discuss Governance. - https://youtu.be/apgF0XTyP1g“ - “"Live Eden CD meeting Fridays 19:00 UTC - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClag0OaWpM0SQeA7GkutlKg/streams"

#Eden_Dispute_Resolution Lead ? : https://t.me/c/1186628781/38621 :
--CD-- : Eden now have a Dispute Resolution process as part of community rule-set. Need a 'Circle Lead' to organize and run this process. Anyone interested in this role, please speak up!.
--M1-- : https://t.me/c/1186628781/38626 : “I would like to offer the idea that the Chief Delegates: … “
--M2-- : https://t.me/c/1186628781/38682 : “Some possible responsibilities I can think of are as follows : … “
--CD-- : “Scope: This process addresses the removal of Eden members. Its scope is limited to disputes inside Eden that are affecting the integrity of the system. Violations regarding the Induction process, sybil checks in the first round of election, and different forms of vote buying.”
--M3-- : https://t.me/c/1186628781/38739 : “I have now looked over all bylaws and think they make sense. Personally I think cost (timewise & money related) involved can be lowered. Many … “
--CD-- : “I think we should test the current version first before we start working on the changes. These all might be … “
--M3-- : “I agree.”

#Eden_Poll : https://t.me/c/1186628781/38909 : --M1-- : POLL Question: “Should Chief Delegates in the name of EdenOnEOS take a position regarding the 68M EOS "Unburn"?”
--M2-- : “This is a good question, but I’m not sure how relevant this org or the CDs are to the governance of the network at this moment. What kind of … “
--M1-- : “To not take positions, is to relegate ourselves to irrelevance.”
--M4-- : “EdenOnEos is the truest voice of the EOS community. It should and does have opinions on how EOS is governed, therefore, imo it has to act as a voice for the community. And the CDs are …”
--M5-- : “non aggressive positioning with rationale is probably the right way. it would go a long way in adoption and understanding of EdenOnEos. From my point of view, key learning for us as community is to be proactive in governance.”

#Eden_Fractal meeting 22 on Nov 9 : https://t.me/c/1186628781/38758 : “The momentous meeting when we reached consensus and approved the first proposal with the Eden+Fractal process! - https://youtu.be/eJ7g6wWSPKY“

#Eden_Fractal time change! : “Time of weekly meetings changed - now 16:00 UTC Wednesdays. This article includes proposals and reasons to change the time. - https://edencreators.com/time“

#Dan_Larimer Nov/2022 : https://t.me/c/1186628781/38689 : “Part I - Daniel Larimer: #EOS, #PSIBASE, #Antelope, NFTs, fractally and much more! - https://youtu.be/j51Mpe8l0Ng“

= END =

#Recap Eden Member group (WK46) - posted Sunday 2022-11-19

#Sybil_protection plan : https://t.me/c/1186628781/38955 :
--CD1-- : “Here’s progress on the sybil protection plan.” – ““We believe the following is a realistic timeline. Phase 1: S4 (current term) - * Distribute … “”
--M1-- : “Sounds good. I'd encourage you to join the Tuesday NFT Reputation System Circle meeting and discuss since much of this already built out, we're currently working on … “
--CD1-- : “Any objections –M2--?”
--M2-- : “I would skip phase 1 and 2, those changes are not so big that they need … “
--CD1-- : “Had a great call today. Looks like the ability to distribute an NTT upon voting has mostly already been designed and coded . “
--M3-- : “I think it’s wise to always err on the most simple , elegant approach that limits changes to smart contracts that have been working as expected. I think … “
--M2-- : “Dan L. mashed together democratic playoff with sybil check. I think its a sound solution, but that does make first round special in a sense. Alternative solution would be to have a separate round for sybil check, and then later running election rounds, possibly asynchronous. But … “
--M2-- : “Met with my team today and devised how each functionality can be achieved. Its not easy but its also not that hard to do it in a way to minimize changes to the current Eden contract. We are willing to do … “ - https://t.me/c/1186628781/39075“

#Eden_Chief_Delegates-meet No.6 - Nov 18, 2022 : https://t.me/c/1186628781/39139 : “The CDs are on live - join and interact - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLqjjThvWMY“

Eden_Dispute_Resolution Lead ? : https://t.me/c/1186628781/39079 :
--CD-- : “After first posting this there was a good amount of dialogue as to how we roll out and really test this Dispute Resolution process. Some of that discussion did seem to add a lot of friction to making this happen but … “ – “With that I will ask again, does anyone want to run this process?”

#DAO_building : https://t.me/c/1186628781/39047 : “3 Questions That Will Help You Build Better DAO Communities - Addressing the challenges of community management in DAOs” - https://link.medium.com/hnTkrsuEZub“

#Eden_Fractal time change! : https://t.me/c/1186628781/39051 : “The Eden+Fractal council approved to change start time of breakout rooms in Wednesday meetings to 16:00 UTC. We’ll open the community room 15:30 UTC. Everyone is encouraged to join the community room before breakout rooms to participate in open discussions.” – “I changed the timezone on the event page to UTC to make it easier for everyone to coordinate their schedules around the world.” – “More in Eden Fractal telegram group: https://t.me/edenfractal“

= END =

#Recap Eden Member group (WK47) - posted Sunday 2022-11-27

#Eden_Chief_Delegates-meet No.6 - Nov 18, 2022 : “ The Eden Chief delegates gather to discuss Eden on EOS Governance. - https://youtu.be/TLqjjThvWMY“

#Sybil_protection NTT/SBT : https://t.me/c/1186628781/39173 :
--CD-- : “We met Nov 22 to discuss implementing NTT/SBT distribution linked to voting in the election. Follow progress —> https://youtu.be/BfC5mK3VSAU Reviewing Code and Strategy for NTT/SBT Design. Also View @sachitdabas code —> … “
--M-- : “Please review and feel free to contribute and suggest features or changes.”

#Hacks on EOS Network? : https://t.me/c/1186628781/39169 : “In reply to question https://t.me/c/1186628781/39167 -
“”Not that I am aware of, but sounds like a solid idea for an article on EOS SUPPORT. Maybe this is helpful for now - https://t.me/c/1186628781/39169 - DeFi Has a $4 Billion Hacking Problem. EOS Has a... (cryptodaily.co.uk)“

#Eden_University : https://t.me/c/1186628781/39189 : “Building on Eden University fantasy 😀.. Eden university can be entry point for new members. It can have a 101 course for new members with at least these topics - a) Election training and mock elections, b) Benefits of members, c) Values of Eden - To be “formally” part of Eden … “

#Eden_Fractal meeting 24 : https://t.me/c/1186628781/39182 : “The group plays Eden+Fractal and discusses agenda systems, promoting work, making rules, spreading fractal software, and more! - https://youtu.be/kXiH2dhe9Es“

** #Author_Comments: ** - https://pomelo.io/grants/therecaps - if you find value in these #Recaps would be greatly appreciated if you consider donate via Pomelo any small amount to this continuing project. It allows #Recaps to continue and also improve it further plus widen the scope. 🙏

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#Recap Eden Member group (WK48) - posted Sunday 2022-12-04

#Eden_Chief_Delegates-meet No.7 - Dec 2, 2022 : https://t.me/c/1186628781/39239 : Eden CDs Weekly Meeting - with the first #Blockproducer representative to join discussion - Michael of EOSUSA. -https://youtu.be/AOR2xWInDLI“

#Blockproducers : https://t.me/c/1186628781/39216 : “Eden CDs invite BPs to join live Friday sessions to share insights, challenges, opportunities, etc. Any BP's here that would like to join us on the live broadcast please reach out to me (@Seedsalchemist) and I'll set up a schedule!”

#Eden_Website : https://t.me/c/1186628781/39236 : “Update: https://edeneos.org/ has now been redirected to http://EdenElections.com - more updates published soon.”

#Eden_Fractal meeting 25 : https://t.me/c/1186628781/39219 : “After breakoutrooms the group discuss Cagendas, Vlalendas, Pomelo, Hypha, Alien World's and more! 🌱 - Eden Fractal 25“

* #Author_Comment 1: Lately most of Eden Member private group discussions moved to https://t.me/EdenOSinfo and/or https://t.me/EOSproject (=EOS). This week most posts related to Pomelo projects, seen also elsewhere. *

** #Author_Comment 2: - https://pomelo.io/grants/therecaps - if you find value in the #Recaps appreciated if show this by donating to the project on Pomelo. It allows #Recaps to continue and to improve it as well as widen the scope. 🙏 **

= END =

#Recap Eden Member group (WK49) - posted Sunday 2022-12-11

#Eden_CDs on Twitter Spaces Dec 8th : https://t.me/EdenOSinfo/43881 : “Use of 500,000 $EOS received … - https://twitter.com/Eden_EOS_Chiefs/status/1600890052313108481?t=qpd2XjstvRfTQuUR8v23oQ&s=19“

#Eden_CDs roundtable : https://t.me/c/1186628781/39345 : “Like to join the CD roundtable and ask questions for CD's to respond to? There's been a lot of excited responses … “ - “”If you are L1 or Eden member and like to join the meeting can do so here - … “l
--M1-- : “Thank you for making that call possible. Good stuff👏”
--CD-- : “Great call all, thank you for joining. I think these L1 + CD meetings are really valuable.”
--M2-- : “yes, would be nice to do them regularly.”

#Eden_Chief_Delegates-meet Dec 9th : https://t.me/EdenOSinfo/43978 : “Eden on #EOS, CDs Weekly Meeting #9 - https://youtu.be/Im_R9-_l5I4“ - “” CDs discussed and stated our stances on the B1 donation, and how we'll ... - ... Also, a lot more was shared about: …"

#Eden_Hypha : https://t.me/c/1186628781/39280 :
--M1-- : “Do we have any timelines for the Eden upvote system “Hypha version”? I have several people interested in potentially using the software across different projects. Running an eden election essentially.”
--M2-- : “No, and i don't think it will be soon either.”
--CD-- : “Hypha just updated their roadmap (see graphic). All funds raised from Pomelo will go towards expediting this process and adding new features that communities need to govern. Hypha aims for Q1 next year to have the Eden process and full EOS deployment.”
--M1-- : “Thank you for this, very helpful.”

#Eden_interviews 1on1 : https://t.me/c/1186628781/39391 : “In my role as CD I'm conducting 1on1 interviews with Eden members to better understand the gaps in our organization and governance process. If you'd like to share and participate please send me a PM and we'll set up a time.”

#Eden_Treasury disbursement ratio : https://t.me/c/1186628781/39298 :
--M1-- : “How quickly can CDs act to lower the distribution percentage ?”
--M2-- : “Now if Eden could use some of those funds to participate in Yield+ … with 5% of TVL trickling back to the treasury. 🤔”
--M3-- : “Any actions or plans initiated how deal with transparency and accountability when now a significant increase in the monthly funding to delegates?”
--M1-- : “Are CDs receiving 2k + 8k ?”
--CD-- : “Yes CD's receive L1 + L2 funds.”

#Eden_Fractal : https://t.me/c/1186628781/39266 :
--M1-- : “Any article about the mechanics of the Eden-Fractal smart contract?”
--M2-- : “Draft article https://edencreators.com/tooling describe Eden Fractal tooling and https://edencreators.com/tooling/admindocumentation for instructions how process respect distributions.”

#Up_Vote_Bot : https://t.me/c/1186628781/39374 : “We are planning 30 minute test of Up Vote Bot. We don't need everyone, but … " - “”The testing will be Monday 14:00 EST (19:00 UTC).""

* #Author_Comment 1: Most Eden Member discussions continue in, or already shared to, public https://t.me/EdenOSinfo and/or https://t.me/EOSproject. In case you need to catch up on more than seen here check, maybe even subscribe to, the #Recaps – EOS & Eden channel where you also find the historical #recaps. *

** #Author_Comment 2: - https://pomelo.io/grants/therecaps - if you find value in the #Recaps a donation in Pomelo is much appreciated and secures continuation and improvement plus a widening of the scope. 🙏 **

= END =

#Recap Eden Member group - up to end of 31 Dec, 2022, (UTC) - (Post 6 of 7)

#Eden_future survey : https://t.me/c/1186628781/39547 : "Would you (*or anyone reading this*) be willing to write out a short list of: A. What you believed/expected Eden to be when joining vs what you experience it as. B. What changes since Genesis do you disagree/agree with?"

#Eden_future : https://t.me/c/1186628781/43235 : 100 Years ahead :
--M1-- : "100 years from now, what should Eden be?"
--M2-- : "A literal network of land-based Edens with .. ?"
--M3-- : "A federation of systems united."
--M4-- : "A worker proposal system"
--M1-- : "Lemme rephrase. 100 years from now what should THIS Eden be."
--M5-- : "in next 10 years generative ai will be too good for eden ... "
--M6-- : " ... a good time to plug in an attempt to do this again! ... " - https://t.me/c/1186628781/43306 - ""3rd horizon in the above""
--M7-- : "Looking at it now :)"
--M8-- : " ... able to gauge and follow what consensus is of its membership ... "
--M9-- : https://t.me/c/1186628781/44695 - " .. We're very much still playing from behind and we need to use that to our advantage by avoiding mistakes and roadblocks that others have already faced or are facing. .."
--M10-- : https://t.me/c/1186628781/45437 "One good way of setting organisational direction (purpose) is to find a shared-values-driven VISION of the future. The purpose and thus direction might even become obvious. (I would do a community-driven job of this via workshops ... "

#Eden_Poll 31 Dec, 2022 : https://t.me/c/1186628781/45766 : "Let's see if we can find a clear direction here... On chain poll here: ... " - ""In your opinion. What is the primary purpose of EdenonEOS?"" *(Not Eden itself, or the process. But the Genesis.eden community.)*

#Hotstuff_consensus protocol : https://t.me/c/1186628781/44942 :
--M-- : "Hotstuff is the consensus protocol that will be implemented on Antelope with the instant finality upgrade. I'm personally trying to learn more about it now myself."
--UX team-- : https://t.me/c/1186628781/44979 : ""What we are really doing is, we are upgrading the consensus model to use the Hotstuff consensus. Hotstuff was originally developed by .. - .. It is state-of-the-art BFT state replication protocol. ... "
--M-- : https://t.me/c/1186628781/44994 ".. If we want to talk about governance right now, why not get even more radical with it? .. "

#Eden_Knowledge_Base : https://t.me/c/1186628781/41241 :
--M1-- : "Would someone please run on creating and maintaining a searchable Eden knowledge-base? Sort of a one stop shop for all info related to Eden? We need better signal to noise ratio, better visibility into proposals, who ... "
--M2-- : "It is definitely needed! Even I get lost at times despite daily read many places including here in Telegram. The new web site ..."

#Eden_Fractal as Eden circle : https://t.me/c/1186628781/40539 :
--M-- : "I’d like to see more plans for EdenOnEOS to integrate or include Eden Fractal ..."
--CD-- : https://t.me/c/1186628781/40550 : "Eden fractal will soon have their circle represented as part of Eden on edenelections.com and have the oppertunity to request funding from CD's."

#AI_Chat_bots : https://t.me/c/1186628781/42637 :
--M1-- : "I can remove this ceaseless regurgitation of AI wordsoup, but I guess I’m not sure if there’s an operator behind it, or if it’s just pure AI run amok in here? Eden member with bot? or just bot ... "
--M2-- : https://t.me/c/1186628781/42727 " ... bots not yet ready participate in discussion in a meaningful productive way. I would only consider allow if/when judged safe and silent so not disrupt or spam kind of."