Zero-Satoshi
There are two valid ways for zero Satoshi in bitcoin:
1. Alice pays Bob Alice has an input transaction of X tokens and all the X tokens are set as anyone can spend allowing the miner to take them as payment living and output to Bob of no tokens,
2. Alice pays Bob in tokens but also sends extraneous information as part of the transaction and it is associated with a token exchange even though there is no token on the secondary component.
There is no such thing as a non-token token exchange. Any miner taking Fiat money to do that would open themselves up to huge lawsuits from very small miners who could create a lawsuit against the miner or collusion and price-fixing. I keep stating that bitcoin is an economic system. The economics are baked in. The thing is, if a 1% miner who hated bitcoin wanted just to cause problems, they could take a lawsuit against anyone who forced them to keep on transaction transactions. They can do this just to destroy the system and the miners who are in the industry, so it doesn’t make much sense to do such a thing and on top of that there is no economic valid reason nor technical justification.
If you spend two seconds thinking about it, you’ll realise that there are absolutely no benefits to having zero transaction transactions.
All the benefits can be done where Alice sends Alice her own token and makes a marker to Bob - that is okay.
Every exchange in bitcoin needs to result in the exchange of one or more tokens.
A UTXO is a coin. Coins by definition are made up of minted tokens.
If there is no Satoshi value included, then it is not a coin or a UTXO.
It is data that is sent by one node that has nothing to do with the network. There is nothing forcing a node to broadcast this, or send it are included and nor is there anything in the system that makes it even remotely secure. Security wise, this is like putting up notices on a brick wall randomly in a city and stating in a years’ time that five years ago these are definitive proof that you own the Brooklyn Bridge. They are completely utterly no more than a marker made by a single miner. They have no real value and no real use.
They have no ability to act as a security marker. They are less secure than a webpage because most webpages end on the way back machine.
To be secure, you need to have a chain of transactions. Putting a hash marker on a block does not make it instantly secure and representative of anything.
CSW
Jun 14,. 2021
https://metanet-icu.slack.com/archives/C5131HKFX/p1623655969264100?thread_ts=1623655969.264100&cid=C5131HKFX
https://t.me/CSW_Slack/2591
There are two valid ways for zero Satoshi in bitcoin:
1. Alice pays Bob Alice has an input transaction of X tokens and all the X tokens are set as anyone can spend allowing the miner to take them as payment living and output to Bob of no tokens,
2. Alice pays Bob in tokens but also sends extraneous information as part of the transaction and it is associated with a token exchange even though there is no token on the secondary component.
There is no such thing as a non-token token exchange. Any miner taking Fiat money to do that would open themselves up to huge lawsuits from very small miners who could create a lawsuit against the miner or collusion and price-fixing. I keep stating that bitcoin is an economic system. The economics are baked in. The thing is, if a 1% miner who hated bitcoin wanted just to cause problems, they could take a lawsuit against anyone who forced them to keep on transaction transactions. They can do this just to destroy the system and the miners who are in the industry, so it doesn’t make much sense to do such a thing and on top of that there is no economic valid reason nor technical justification.
If you spend two seconds thinking about it, you’ll realise that there are absolutely no benefits to having zero transaction transactions.
All the benefits can be done where Alice sends Alice her own token and makes a marker to Bob - that is okay.
Every exchange in bitcoin needs to result in the exchange of one or more tokens.
A UTXO is a coin. Coins by definition are made up of minted tokens.
If there is no Satoshi value included, then it is not a coin or a UTXO.
It is data that is sent by one node that has nothing to do with the network. There is nothing forcing a node to broadcast this, or send it are included and nor is there anything in the system that makes it even remotely secure. Security wise, this is like putting up notices on a brick wall randomly in a city and stating in a years’ time that five years ago these are definitive proof that you own the Brooklyn Bridge. They are completely utterly no more than a marker made by a single miner. They have no real value and no real use.
They have no ability to act as a security marker. They are less secure than a webpage because most webpages end on the way back machine.
To be secure, you need to have a chain of transactions. Putting a hash marker on a block does not make it instantly secure and representative of anything.
CSW
Jun 14,. 2021
https://metanet-icu.slack.com/archives/C5131HKFX/p1623655969264100?thread_ts=1623655969.264100&cid=C5131HKFX
https://t.me/CSW_Slack/2591
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CSW
Jun 14,. 2021
https://metanet-icu.slack.com/archives/C5131HKFX/p1623655969264100?thread_ts=1623655969.264100&cid=C5131HKFX
https://t.me/CSW_Slack/2591
Jun 14,. 2021
https://metanet-icu.slack.com/archives/C5131HKFX/p1623655969264100?thread_ts=1623655969.264100&cid=C5131HKFX
https://t.me/CSW_Slack/2591
No Sat, no reason for keeping the entry
CSW
Jun 14, 2021
https://metanet-icu.slack.com/archives/C5131HKFX/p1623657639271900?thread_ts=1623657639.271900&cid=C5131HKFX
https://t.me/CSW_Slack/2593
CSW
Jun 14, 2021
https://metanet-icu.slack.com/archives/C5131HKFX/p1623657639271900?thread_ts=1623657639.271900&cid=C5131HKFX
https://t.me/CSW_Slack/2593
A UTXO is a coin.
token-based computiing is forty years old
it works
bitcoin is an incentive system
it is an economic system
accounting systems that are based on mere account ledgers are not
proof of work does not make something a security or not
Ethereum is an account based system
Ethereum is insecure and will never scale and will have problems because of the nature of the system
it decided to abandon the economic constructs that make bitcoin function
CSW
Jun 14, 2021
https://metanet-icu.slack.com/archives/C5131HKFX/p1623679139297400?thread_ts=1623679139.297400&cid=C5131HKFX
https://t.me/CSW_Slack/2598
token-based computiing is forty years old
it works
bitcoin is an incentive system
it is an economic system
accounting systems that are based on mere account ledgers are not
proof of work does not make something a security or not
Ethereum is an account based system
Ethereum is insecure and will never scale and will have problems because of the nature of the system
it decided to abandon the economic constructs that make bitcoin function
CSW
Jun 14, 2021
https://metanet-icu.slack.com/archives/C5131HKFX/p1623679139297400?thread_ts=1623679139.297400&cid=C5131HKFX
https://t.me/CSW_Slack/2598
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CSW
Jun 14, 2021
https://metanet-icu.slack.com/archives/C5131HKFX/p1623679139297400?thread_ts=1623679139.297400&cid=C5131HKFX
https://t.me/CSW_Slack/2598
Jun 14, 2021
https://metanet-icu.slack.com/archives/C5131HKFX/p1623679139297400?thread_ts=1623679139.297400&cid=C5131HKFX
https://t.me/CSW_Slack/2598
I recommend that people stop using the word infinity. Infinity doesn't exist. In mathematics when we talk about a process that tends towards infinity what we really meaning is that it's unbounded.
Approaches
It never is
The correct mathematical description is to say that 1/x Approaches infinity at the limit as x goes to 0
In effect, the function is undefined at x=0
Time extends
Matter never forms a point
The closer to bring a point, the longer it takes to change, the process diverges. It never approaches infinite
Black holes evaporate faster than they collapse
CSW
Jun 15, 2021
https://metanet-icu.slack.com/archives/C5131HKFX/p1623737482363600?thread_ts=1623737482.363600&cid=C5131HKFX
https://t.me/CSW_Slack/2600
Approaches
It never is
The correct mathematical description is to say that 1/x Approaches infinity at the limit as x goes to 0
In effect, the function is undefined at x=0
Time extends
Matter never forms a point
The closer to bring a point, the longer it takes to change, the process diverges. It never approaches infinite
Black holes evaporate faster than they collapse
CSW
Jun 15, 2021
https://metanet-icu.slack.com/archives/C5131HKFX/p1623737482363600?thread_ts=1623737482.363600&cid=C5131HKFX
https://t.me/CSW_Slack/2600
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CSW - Slack Channel
CSW
Jun 15, 2021
https://metanet-icu.slack.com/archives/C5131HKFX/p1623737482363600?thread_ts=1623737482.363600&cid=C5131HKFX
https://t.me/CSW_Slack/2600
Jun 15, 2021
https://metanet-icu.slack.com/archives/C5131HKFX/p1623737482363600?thread_ts=1623737482.363600&cid=C5131HKFX
https://t.me/CSW_Slack/2600
Bitcoin tokens are not keys.
Keys are not the property. If a key was the property in bitcoin, than after sending the tokens to the recipient you would retain value.
The tokens are exchanged, not the keys. Keys are supposed to link identity. If you do not have identity, you don't have a digital signature.
A negotiable instrument is the document
It is the property
To transfer it, you sign it over
In time, you end with a chain of signatures on the original document
No.
Tokens do not have signatures
Tokens have nothing at all to ever do with signatures.
The signature is on the (virtual) envelope.
The envelope holds tokens.
The tokens and envelopes are not the same.
The envelopes are registered. This is on a ledger (the blockchain) that all people can read.
The ledger records how many tokens are in each envelope at the time of registration.
You can move and exchange tokens without registration, but this can be risky as it allows the other person to commit fraud easily.
CSW
Mar 15, 2020
https://metanet-icu.slack.com/archives/C5131HKFX/p1584263168429300?thread_ts=1584263168.429300&cid=C5131HKFX
https://t.me/CSW_Slack/2602
Keys are not the property. If a key was the property in bitcoin, than after sending the tokens to the recipient you would retain value.
The tokens are exchanged, not the keys. Keys are supposed to link identity. If you do not have identity, you don't have a digital signature.
A negotiable instrument is the document
It is the property
To transfer it, you sign it over
In time, you end with a chain of signatures on the original document
No.
Tokens do not have signatures
Tokens have nothing at all to ever do with signatures.
The signature is on the (virtual) envelope.
The envelope holds tokens.
The tokens and envelopes are not the same.
The envelopes are registered. This is on a ledger (the blockchain) that all people can read.
The ledger records how many tokens are in each envelope at the time of registration.
You can move and exchange tokens without registration, but this can be risky as it allows the other person to commit fraud easily.
CSW
Mar 15, 2020
https://metanet-icu.slack.com/archives/C5131HKFX/p1584263168429300?thread_ts=1584263168.429300&cid=C5131HKFX
https://t.me/CSW_Slack/2602
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CSW
Mar 15, 2020
https://metanet-icu.slack.com/archives/C5131HKFX/p1584263168429300?thread_ts=1584263168.429300&cid=C5131HKFX
https://t.me/CSW_Slack/2602
Mar 15, 2020
https://metanet-icu.slack.com/archives/C5131HKFX/p1584263168429300?thread_ts=1584263168.429300&cid=C5131HKFX
https://t.me/CSW_Slack/2602
A private key must be unique to the individual or it cannot be associated with a digital signature
If you ever share the key, it is no longer valid to use in signing.
CSW
Mar 17, 2020
https://metanet-icu.slack.com/archives/C5131HKFX/p1584451791060700?thread_ts=1584451791.060700&cid=C5131HKFX
https://t.me/CSW_Slack/2604
If you ever share the key, it is no longer valid to use in signing.
CSW
Mar 17, 2020
https://metanet-icu.slack.com/archives/C5131HKFX/p1584451791060700?thread_ts=1584451791.060700&cid=C5131HKFX
https://t.me/CSW_Slack/2604
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CSW
Mar 17, 2020
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https://t.me/CSW_Slack/2604
Mar 17, 2020
https://metanet-icu.slack.com/archives/C5131HKFX/p1584451791060700?thread_ts=1584451791.060700&cid=C5131HKFX
https://t.me/CSW_Slack/2604
You cannot get a chain of proof of work information and make an identity.
I wish people would stop this bull shit about code is law. There is no digital signature and no identity without people.
A key can be signed - by a register - with evidence of ID
Vote - horrible
Voting systems are complex
I designed some
CSW
May 6, 2021
https://metanet-icu.slack.com/archives/C5131HKFX/p1588775667184100?thread_ts=1588775667.184100&cid=C5131HKFX
https://t.me/CSW_Slack/2606
I wish people would stop this bull shit about code is law. There is no digital signature and no identity without people.
A key can be signed - by a register - with evidence of ID
Vote - horrible
Voting systems are complex
I designed some
CSW
May 6, 2021
https://metanet-icu.slack.com/archives/C5131HKFX/p1588775667184100?thread_ts=1588775667.184100&cid=C5131HKFX
https://t.me/CSW_Slack/2606
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CSW - Slack Channel
CSW
May 6, 2021
https://metanet-icu.slack.com/archives/C5131HKFX/p1588775667184100?thread_ts=1588775667.184100&cid=C5131HKFX
https://t.me/CSW_Slack/2606
May 6, 2021
https://metanet-icu.slack.com/archives/C5131HKFX/p1588775667184100?thread_ts=1588775667.184100&cid=C5131HKFX
https://t.me/CSW_Slack/2606
People ask why I am Christian and believe.
Why ask God to be a part of your life? Why choose to think there is more....
Then, COPA comes along and you see your wishes and deepest desires answered...
You worry Bout people running and that the cases are difficult to get before a judge.
Then, by the grace of God and it has to be, there is no way that level of stupidly can exist outside of a miracle....
Natural law.
CSW
Jun 15, 2021
https://metanet-icu.slack.com/archives/C5131HKFX/p1623788130493200?thread_ts=1623788130.493200&cid=C5131HKFX
https://t.me/CSW_Slack/2608
Why ask God to be a part of your life? Why choose to think there is more....
Then, COPA comes along and you see your wishes and deepest desires answered...
You worry Bout people running and that the cases are difficult to get before a judge.
Then, by the grace of God and it has to be, there is no way that level of stupidly can exist outside of a miracle....
Natural law.
CSW
Jun 15, 2021
https://metanet-icu.slack.com/archives/C5131HKFX/p1623788130493200?thread_ts=1623788130.493200&cid=C5131HKFX
https://t.me/CSW_Slack/2608
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CSW - Slack Channel
CSW
Jun 15, 2021
https://metanet-icu.slack.com/archives/C5131HKFX/p1623788130493200?thread_ts=1623788130.493200&cid=C5131HKFX
https://t.me/CSW_Slack/2608
Jun 15, 2021
https://metanet-icu.slack.com/archives/C5131HKFX/p1623788130493200?thread_ts=1623788130.493200&cid=C5131HKFX
https://t.me/CSW_Slack/2608
the simple answer is it will be orphaned and pruned and someone building something that requires and will find that they just have nothing
there is no effect on the network removing and pruning a zero sat transaction as if it never existed because it doesn't exist
Alice has no output she has no UTXO
it is a record that may or may not exist
it is a record that can be pruned or not
there is a section on pruning
if it is part of an existing unspent transaction as is noted above, then it will still be on chain
no token, no UTXO
and, as is also noted this is not a zero sat transaction
having a value recorded where there is a payment against a token is just a way of adding extra data which is allowable
the whole point here as you need to have a transaction involving a token or it is not a transaction
I really do not care if you hook a billion USD off the 0-sat thing. (NOT a TX)
If you are dumb enough not to pay for 1 sat - you can lose it
CSW
Jun 17, 2021
https://metanet-icu.slack.com/archives/C5131HKFX/p1623922315126000
https://t.me/CSW_Slack/2613
there is no effect on the network removing and pruning a zero sat transaction as if it never existed because it doesn't exist
Alice has no output she has no UTXO
it is a record that may or may not exist
it is a record that can be pruned or not
there is a section on pruning
if it is part of an existing unspent transaction as is noted above, then it will still be on chain
no token, no UTXO
and, as is also noted this is not a zero sat transaction
having a value recorded where there is a payment against a token is just a way of adding extra data which is allowable
the whole point here as you need to have a transaction involving a token or it is not a transaction
I really do not care if you hook a billion USD off the 0-sat thing. (NOT a TX)
If you are dumb enough not to pay for 1 sat - you can lose it
CSW
Jun 17, 2021
https://metanet-icu.slack.com/archives/C5131HKFX/p1623922315126000
https://t.me/CSW_Slack/2613
Telegram
CSW - Slack Channel
CSW
Jun 17, 2021
https://metanet-icu.slack.com/archives/C5131HKFX/p1623922315126000
https://t.me/CSW_Slack/2613
Jun 17, 2021
https://metanet-icu.slack.com/archives/C5131HKFX/p1623922315126000
https://t.me/CSW_Slack/2613