Rewatching GOT and every time Tywin talks I'm just sitting there like… he's not wrong though.
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Question about arya
So i just started season 7 and im actively watching the scene of Arya killing the house of frey, and i just thought about this, Arya uses the tricks of the many faces god but im curious if she would technically qualify as a true follower of the many face god due to her rejecting becoming 'no one' or is this more of a bastardization of them
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So i just started season 7 and im actively watching the scene of Arya killing the house of frey, and i just thought about this, Arya uses the tricks of the many faces god but im curious if she would technically qualify as a true follower of the many face god due to her rejecting becoming 'no one' or is this more of a bastardization of them
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Jon Snow personality
Jon Snow honor? Did it came from being raised as a bastard child of Ned Stark or was it a part of his nature? Like say Robert Rebellion turn out different and Jon Snow lived as Aegon Targaryen and was raised in King’s Landing?
What kind of person would Jon Snow turn out to be? Maybe his mother would try and instill some northern values in him assuming she survived childbirth.
Thought: personality would be the same. Just without the bastard angst and doubt. Stubborn but
flexible because he have to spend his life in court
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Jon Snow honor? Did it came from being raised as a bastard child of Ned Stark or was it a part of his nature? Like say Robert Rebellion turn out different and Jon Snow lived as Aegon Targaryen and was raised in King’s Landing?
What kind of person would Jon Snow turn out to be? Maybe his mother would try and instill some northern values in him assuming she survived childbirth.
Thought: personality would be the same. Just without the bastard angst and doubt. Stubborn but
flexible because he have to spend his life in court
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Renly declaring himself as king was a terrible decision.
Even with only the information available to him, I don't understand how he thought it was a good idea.
1. By the time Renly flees the capital, it’s clear that the Starks will war with the Lannisters. There’s a reason why three-way wars are relatively rare - the first two parties to make an alliance will boost their odds of winning the whole thing, and there is zero chance the Starks or Renly will accept a Lannister alliance. Renly and the Tyrells are far more suited to winning the peace in a Stark alliance rather than going their own way. Demanding to be recognized as king is an unnecessary barrier to getting the Stark armies ASAP.
2. Adding more kings to the war will prolong the fighting and destabilize Westeros, especially since he didn't know whether Stannis would declare. This invites foreign intervention (sellswords, Iron Bank, Daenerys, White Walkers). It also encourages other regions to pursue their own agendas (Iron Islands, Dorne). Even if Renly got the throne, self-crowning would haunt him in the long term.
3. As the Master of Laws, Renly had three ironclad reasons to call the banners of the Stormlands and the Reach: putting Jaime on trial for attacking Ned in King’s Landing, justice for Ned’s execution without a trial (precedent with Aerys), and stopping Gregor’s burning of the Riverlands (Ned’s order as Hand of the King). All he had to do was say “I’m doing my duty” and the optics would’ve been perfect. He had three legitimate and mutually compatible casus belli. He could have also accused the Lannisters of assassinating Robert, seizing the Stark daughters, and incest. Instead, he threw away duty, law, and precedent for an obvious power grab that any future usurper could take inspiration from.
4. It’s clear that the Lannisters will go after Stannis. If Stannis falls in battle, Renly becomes the legal successor (regent to Shireen at worst), gets another casus belli (“avenging my brother”), and saves a LOT of heavy lifting in terms of waging war. Whereas self-crowning alienated Stannis for predictable reasons.
5. Even if Stannis defeats the Lannisters, he is likely to alienate his subjects (renouncing the seven, burning people alive like Aerys, reputation of no mercy as shown by Davos' fingers, banning brothels). Nothing would support Renly's rationale of being a better king more than letting Stannis fumble the throne while he serves as Hand or, at worst, as Lord Paramount. Remember when people compared Tywin and Aerys? Again, Renly and the Tyrells could easily win the peace. They are in prime position to manufacture some crises (food shipments to King's Landing), scapegoat Stannis, and encourage his downfall by smallfolk riot, Great Council, or Duskendale 2.0. I'm surprised Olenna didn't decide that a secret pact and a Purple Coronation would've been miles cheaper than the time / money spent battling Stannis.
6. Let's not forget about worst-case scenarios. If you ally with Robb and betray him later, he'll take your head. If you ally with Stannis and betray him later, he'll take your head or burn you. But if Joffrey / Cersei / Tywin end up on top, you and your loved ones will beg for death. Everyone knows the Rains of Castamere. Everyone knows what happened to Elia. Joffrey just executed the father of his betrothed! Even if we accept that self-crowning increases the odds of taking the throne, is it worth the friction with Robb / Stannis and the increased risk of ending up in a dungeon with Amory Lorch and Gregor Clegane? I don't think so.
In summary, Renly should never have crowned himself. He could've had the Reach, the North, the Riverlands, and Dragonstone doomstacking towards King's Landing, with the Iron Islands and Dorne gladly joining the winning side. Instead, hubris led to his downfall.
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Even with only the information available to him, I don't understand how he thought it was a good idea.
1. By the time Renly flees the capital, it’s clear that the Starks will war with the Lannisters. There’s a reason why three-way wars are relatively rare - the first two parties to make an alliance will boost their odds of winning the whole thing, and there is zero chance the Starks or Renly will accept a Lannister alliance. Renly and the Tyrells are far more suited to winning the peace in a Stark alliance rather than going their own way. Demanding to be recognized as king is an unnecessary barrier to getting the Stark armies ASAP.
2. Adding more kings to the war will prolong the fighting and destabilize Westeros, especially since he didn't know whether Stannis would declare. This invites foreign intervention (sellswords, Iron Bank, Daenerys, White Walkers). It also encourages other regions to pursue their own agendas (Iron Islands, Dorne). Even if Renly got the throne, self-crowning would haunt him in the long term.
3. As the Master of Laws, Renly had three ironclad reasons to call the banners of the Stormlands and the Reach: putting Jaime on trial for attacking Ned in King’s Landing, justice for Ned’s execution without a trial (precedent with Aerys), and stopping Gregor’s burning of the Riverlands (Ned’s order as Hand of the King). All he had to do was say “I’m doing my duty” and the optics would’ve been perfect. He had three legitimate and mutually compatible casus belli. He could have also accused the Lannisters of assassinating Robert, seizing the Stark daughters, and incest. Instead, he threw away duty, law, and precedent for an obvious power grab that any future usurper could take inspiration from.
4. It’s clear that the Lannisters will go after Stannis. If Stannis falls in battle, Renly becomes the legal successor (regent to Shireen at worst), gets another casus belli (“avenging my brother”), and saves a LOT of heavy lifting in terms of waging war. Whereas self-crowning alienated Stannis for predictable reasons.
5. Even if Stannis defeats the Lannisters, he is likely to alienate his subjects (renouncing the seven, burning people alive like Aerys, reputation of no mercy as shown by Davos' fingers, banning brothels). Nothing would support Renly's rationale of being a better king more than letting Stannis fumble the throne while he serves as Hand or, at worst, as Lord Paramount. Remember when people compared Tywin and Aerys? Again, Renly and the Tyrells could easily win the peace. They are in prime position to manufacture some crises (food shipments to King's Landing), scapegoat Stannis, and encourage his downfall by smallfolk riot, Great Council, or Duskendale 2.0. I'm surprised Olenna didn't decide that a secret pact and a Purple Coronation would've been miles cheaper than the time / money spent battling Stannis.
6. Let's not forget about worst-case scenarios. If you ally with Robb and betray him later, he'll take your head. If you ally with Stannis and betray him later, he'll take your head or burn you. But if Joffrey / Cersei / Tywin end up on top, you and your loved ones will beg for death. Everyone knows the Rains of Castamere. Everyone knows what happened to Elia. Joffrey just executed the father of his betrothed! Even if we accept that self-crowning increases the odds of taking the throne, is it worth the friction with Robb / Stannis and the increased risk of ending up in a dungeon with Amory Lorch and Gregor Clegane? I don't think so.
In summary, Renly should never have crowned himself. He could've had the Reach, the North, the Riverlands, and Dragonstone doomstacking towards King's Landing, with the Iron Islands and Dorne gladly joining the winning side. Instead, hubris led to his downfall.
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Hot take (maybe?) S8E2 is a top 5 in the whole series.
I was not a day one watcher, so I did not invest decades of my life into this story beforehand which very well may warp my judgment. I watched Game of Thrones for the first time during Covid. I’ve watched it once or twice a year ever since.
I’m doing a rewatch now, and for some reason s8e2 “A Knight Of The Seven Kingdoms” had me moved to tears at several points.
I know everyone likes to shit on the last season, but am I crazy to think that in the lead up to the long night they absolutely nailed the final moments for so many of these characters we spent so long learning to love?
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I was not a day one watcher, so I did not invest decades of my life into this story beforehand which very well may warp my judgment. I watched Game of Thrones for the first time during Covid. I’ve watched it once or twice a year ever since.
I’m doing a rewatch now, and for some reason s8e2 “A Knight Of The Seven Kingdoms” had me moved to tears at several points.
I know everyone likes to shit on the last season, but am I crazy to think that in the lead up to the long night they absolutely nailed the final moments for so many of these characters we spent so long learning to love?
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Catelyn Stark couldn't keep her promise and neither could Jon Snow
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