Chinese stocks are crashing.
The Hong Kong China index was in the vice like grip of panic selling yesterday.
It closed 7.2% down, the biggest drop since November 2008.
The index is now down 28% in one month and a whopping 45% in one year.
Contrast this with the Sensex which despite recent volatility is still up 12% over a 1-year period.
Now, here’s some data that will really shake you to the core.
Since its inception in December 1992, the MSCI China index has returned just 1.5% per annum in USD terms.
If you include fees, taxes etc, the returns could come to almost zero.
Yes, that’s correct.
The stock market of the fastest growing economy, an economic miracle of the current century, has given almost zero returns over a period as long as 30 years.
Here’s the chart for a quick overview.
The Hong Kong China index was in the vice like grip of panic selling yesterday.
It closed 7.2% down, the biggest drop since November 2008.
The index is now down 28% in one month and a whopping 45% in one year.
Contrast this with the Sensex which despite recent volatility is still up 12% over a 1-year period.
Now, here’s some data that will really shake you to the core.
Since its inception in December 1992, the MSCI China index has returned just 1.5% per annum in USD terms.
If you include fees, taxes etc, the returns could come to almost zero.
Yes, that’s correct.
The stock market of the fastest growing economy, an economic miracle of the current century, has given almost zero returns over a period as long as 30 years.
Here’s the chart for a quick overview.
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Manan (@thakkarmanan) Tweeted:
Msci China in USD terms since 1992
Returns near 1%!
#chartoftheday
@nooreshtech https://t.co/Vb3LmtdKdL https://twitter.com/thakkarmanan/status/1503564411570728960?s=20&t=j4dDk3lzMeLWu-KKhuMbSw
Msci China in USD terms since 1992
Returns near 1%!
#chartoftheday
@nooreshtech https://t.co/Vb3LmtdKdL https://twitter.com/thakkarmanan/status/1503564411570728960?s=20&t=j4dDk3lzMeLWu-KKhuMbSw
Twitter
Manan
Msci China in USD terms since 1992 Returns near 1%! #chartoftheday @nooreshtech
Is this crisis an opportunity by the way?
Charlie Munger definitely likes to think so.
He made his love for the Chinese economy and its dominant stocks loud and clear at the recently held AGM of Daily Journal Corporation, a firm where he is the Chairman.
Here’s what he is believed to have said.
China is a big modern nation. It’s got this huge population and this huge modernity that has come in the last 30 years. We invested some money in China because we could get more value in terms of the strength of the enterprise on the price of the security than we could get in the United States. Other people, including Sequoia, the leading venture capital firm in the United States, have made the same decision we have. (Source: Junto Investments)
There’s an important investing lesson here. The future is always going to be unclear. So, do your homework, ensure that the underlying stocks is of good quality and buy it with an enough margin of safety.
It doesn’t matter what others think. If the stock ticks both the quantitative as well as qualitative boxes, go ahead and take the plunge without worrying about the popular opinion out there.
For Munger, his Chinese investments of BYD and Alibaba ticked these boxes and he is also confident of the Chinese economy doing well going forward. This is all that matters to him.
Charlie Munger definitely likes to think so.
He made his love for the Chinese economy and its dominant stocks loud and clear at the recently held AGM of Daily Journal Corporation, a firm where he is the Chairman.
Here’s what he is believed to have said.
China is a big modern nation. It’s got this huge population and this huge modernity that has come in the last 30 years. We invested some money in China because we could get more value in terms of the strength of the enterprise on the price of the security than we could get in the United States. Other people, including Sequoia, the leading venture capital firm in the United States, have made the same decision we have. (Source: Junto Investments)
There’s an important investing lesson here. The future is always going to be unclear. So, do your homework, ensure that the underlying stocks is of good quality and buy it with an enough margin of safety.
It doesn’t matter what others think. If the stock ticks both the quantitative as well as qualitative boxes, go ahead and take the plunge without worrying about the popular opinion out there.
For Munger, his Chinese investments of BYD and Alibaba ticked these boxes and he is also confident of the Chinese economy doing well going forward. This is all that matters to him.
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Equitymaster has been Hit by a Ransomware Attack
Dear Valued Member:
There’s no easy way to say this.
Equitymaster is now a victim of a ransomware attack.
In effect, this means you and I, along with our base of subscribers and the Equitymaster team, have been locked out of our website.
For now, you can no longer visit Equitymaster.com or our Android App and access our honest opinions on investing.
We are doing our best to address this situation.
I am sure you have many questions you want answered...I will pre-empt some here which I think will be most critical.
First, did Equitymaster have systems to prevent such an attack?
In a word, yes. We subscribe to the best-in-class firewalls, antivirus and malware software and have in place policies that prevent such attacks from happening.
The fact that this attack still happened gives us pause. We are already reviewing everything and have already initiated steps to further tighten our systems and processes to prevent such attacks.
Second, did we keep backups?
Again, yes. We have a well-defined back up policy. It has worked perfectly for over 25 years. Until now. The ransomware hacker has managed to break through and infect our backups as well.
How will this impact you?
If you are a reader of Equitymaster, there’s almost no impact.
If you are a subscriber, again, the impact will be limited as we are working towards restoring data from other internal sources. We expect your subscription account to continue without any inconvenience.
If you are a user of the Portfolio Tracker, this is not good news. While we will try our utmost best to resolve the ransomware matter, any adverse outcome will impact your data. If this would happen we know how disappointed you would be. It would nothing less than shatter us.
Third, will Equitymaster continue to publish?
YES. Our entire team is on ground and finding ways to fight off this challenge. We will definitely continue to publish ALL our premium research. And we are working hard to get back to publishing all the other stuff that we do.
Fourth, when will things go back to normal?
We just cannot say. But we are working to address this at the earliest.
Fifth, is the data safe?
We cannot confirm that. But it appears the intention of the hackers is not the take the data, but to ask for money to unlock the data on our own servers.
What about credit card data and other payment related information?
Equitymaster never saves personal payment details. So no worries at all there.
Sixth, what happens to the missed days of my subscription?
As soon as our systems come online we will more than make up for these lost days.
Like I said, you probably have more questions. I can already see our Customer Service team swamped with queries. I hope you will be patient with them as they do their utmost best to address your concerns.
Meanwhile, my team and I continue to work hard towards addressing this ransomware issue.
Your patience and support is deeply appreciated.
Stay safe,
Warm regards
Rahul Goel
CEO, Equitymaster
PS: The entire customer service team is on standby to address your concerns in the most transparent manner. If you have queries, drop them an email... Thank you, once again.
Dear Valued Member:
There’s no easy way to say this.
Equitymaster is now a victim of a ransomware attack.
In effect, this means you and I, along with our base of subscribers and the Equitymaster team, have been locked out of our website.
For now, you can no longer visit Equitymaster.com or our Android App and access our honest opinions on investing.
We are doing our best to address this situation.
I am sure you have many questions you want answered...I will pre-empt some here which I think will be most critical.
First, did Equitymaster have systems to prevent such an attack?
In a word, yes. We subscribe to the best-in-class firewalls, antivirus and malware software and have in place policies that prevent such attacks from happening.
The fact that this attack still happened gives us pause. We are already reviewing everything and have already initiated steps to further tighten our systems and processes to prevent such attacks.
Second, did we keep backups?
Again, yes. We have a well-defined back up policy. It has worked perfectly for over 25 years. Until now. The ransomware hacker has managed to break through and infect our backups as well.
How will this impact you?
If you are a reader of Equitymaster, there’s almost no impact.
If you are a subscriber, again, the impact will be limited as we are working towards restoring data from other internal sources. We expect your subscription account to continue without any inconvenience.
If you are a user of the Portfolio Tracker, this is not good news. While we will try our utmost best to resolve the ransomware matter, any adverse outcome will impact your data. If this would happen we know how disappointed you would be. It would nothing less than shatter us.
Third, will Equitymaster continue to publish?
YES. Our entire team is on ground and finding ways to fight off this challenge. We will definitely continue to publish ALL our premium research. And we are working hard to get back to publishing all the other stuff that we do.
Fourth, when will things go back to normal?
We just cannot say. But we are working to address this at the earliest.
Fifth, is the data safe?
We cannot confirm that. But it appears the intention of the hackers is not the take the data, but to ask for money to unlock the data on our own servers.
What about credit card data and other payment related information?
Equitymaster never saves personal payment details. So no worries at all there.
Sixth, what happens to the missed days of my subscription?
As soon as our systems come online we will more than make up for these lost days.
Like I said, you probably have more questions. I can already see our Customer Service team swamped with queries. I hope you will be patient with them as they do their utmost best to address your concerns.
Meanwhile, my team and I continue to work hard towards addressing this ransomware issue.
Your patience and support is deeply appreciated.
Stay safe,
Warm regards
Rahul Goel
CEO, Equitymaster
PS: The entire customer service team is on standby to address your concerns in the most transparent manner. If you have queries, drop them an email... Thank you, once again.
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Fun way of saying that stocks like Paytm are extremely difficult to value.
Because the company has no profits, you either value it based on future profits or its current book value.
Both these methods are fraught with risks as future profits are hard to calculate and current book value is fast eroding.
In short, paytm is a business difficult to wrap your head around.
Charlie says we have three boxes: “In,” “Out” and “Too hard.” You don’t have to do everything well. At the Olympics, if you run the 100 meters well, you don’t have to do the shot put…” — Warren Buffett.
Because the company has no profits, you either value it based on future profits or its current book value.
Both these methods are fraught with risks as future profits are hard to calculate and current book value is fast eroding.
In short, paytm is a business difficult to wrap your head around.
Charlie says we have three boxes: “In,” “Out” and “Too hard.” You don’t have to do everything well. At the Olympics, if you run the 100 meters well, you don’t have to do the shot put…” — Warren Buffett.
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As you are aware, Equitymaster.com is a victim of a ransomware attack.
We will not let this come between you and the credible and honest opinions we publish for you.
The entire Equitymaster team is all here, and publishing daily as usual.
Just that you will receive our content and research updates over email till we sort out things.
Thank you for your patience.
We will not let this come between you and the credible and honest opinions we publish for you.
The entire Equitymaster team is all here, and publishing daily as usual.
Just that you will receive our content and research updates over email till we sort out things.
Thank you for your patience.
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Hi, even as we work round the clock to get our website up and running, how about an interesting investment case study.
This case study concerns Warren Buffett's recent purchase of 18.1 m shares of Occidental Petroleum Corp, the US oil giant.
Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway now owns close to 15% stake in the company and currently ranks as it's 8th biggest stock holding. Interestingly, Buffett also owns stake worth US$ 6 bn in Chevron, another oil giant.
Clearly, Buffett energy bets are perplexing. Especially against the backdrop of a world that will be powered by green energy. Does Buffett not believe in the concept of reducing carbon emissions or are we missing something?
Luckily for us, Buffett was asked the very same question at last years's Berkshire AGM. Here's what he had said.
"I would say that people that are on the extremes of both sides are a little nuts. I would hate to have all hydrocarbons banned in three years, or you wouldn’t want a world that, it wouldn’t work. And on the other hand, what’s happening will be adapted to, over time, just as we’ve adapted them to all kinds of things."
That's a perfectly rational reply in my view, something you've come to expect from a legend like Buffett.
Buffett argues that you can't have a hydrocarbon free world in three years. Likewise, green energy can't become the dominant source in a few years. The transition will take time.
Thus, if investors are going ga-ga over green energy stocks and assigning them crazy multiples, you should stay away from such stocks.
Similarly, if investors are becoming negative about energy stocks and dumping them to levels where they become attractive valuations wise, you can consider investing in them.
This is exactly what seems to have happened to Occidental Petroleum. Thus, Buffett saw an opportunity and snapped up the company's shares.
The way stocks like ONGC and Oil India have moved over the past few months, looks like Buffett's mantra would have worked in India as well.
This case study concerns Warren Buffett's recent purchase of 18.1 m shares of Occidental Petroleum Corp, the US oil giant.
Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway now owns close to 15% stake in the company and currently ranks as it's 8th biggest stock holding. Interestingly, Buffett also owns stake worth US$ 6 bn in Chevron, another oil giant.
Clearly, Buffett energy bets are perplexing. Especially against the backdrop of a world that will be powered by green energy. Does Buffett not believe in the concept of reducing carbon emissions or are we missing something?
Luckily for us, Buffett was asked the very same question at last years's Berkshire AGM. Here's what he had said.
"I would say that people that are on the extremes of both sides are a little nuts. I would hate to have all hydrocarbons banned in three years, or you wouldn’t want a world that, it wouldn’t work. And on the other hand, what’s happening will be adapted to, over time, just as we’ve adapted them to all kinds of things."
That's a perfectly rational reply in my view, something you've come to expect from a legend like Buffett.
Buffett argues that you can't have a hydrocarbon free world in three years. Likewise, green energy can't become the dominant source in a few years. The transition will take time.
Thus, if investors are going ga-ga over green energy stocks and assigning them crazy multiples, you should stay away from such stocks.
Similarly, if investors are becoming negative about energy stocks and dumping them to levels where they become attractive valuations wise, you can consider investing in them.
This is exactly what seems to have happened to Occidental Petroleum. Thus, Buffett saw an opportunity and snapped up the company's shares.
The way stocks like ONGC and Oil India have moved over the past few months, looks like Buffett's mantra would have worked in India as well.
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Hi, I am back as promised, and I will continue to bring interesting observations through this channel till we get our websites back on track.
Loved the following quote from famous author Robert Greene posted in his Twitter account.
“Learn to use the knowledge of the past and you will look like a genius, even when you are really just a clever borrower.”
I reason I liked it because it can save you from big losses in the stock market.
Let me explain how.
Will you invest in a company that has made a cumulative loss of almost Rs 2,000 crores over the last five years, with not a single profit-making year?
Hmmm…may be depends on the valuations you might say.
Well, what if the stock is available at a price to sales multiple of a whopping 40x?
A loss-making stock with an absurd valuation? You’d reject it outright, wouldn’t you?
Let’s take another example.
This is another loss-making stock, racking up cumulative losses of more than Rs 4 thousand crores and once again, not a single profitable year in the last four years.
The valuations? Yet again, a whopping price to sales ratio in the region of 30x.
Now, what if I tell you only a few months back, investors were falling head over heels in order to make an investment in these stocks. Sounds unbelievable, isn’t it?
However, it is true. These financials are of none other than Paytm and Zomato. The stocks that have destroyed enormous wealth for shareholders over the past few weeks with no respite in sight.
The reason investors fell for them is because they forgot the important lesson I have highlighted at the top of this post.
All they had to do to look like a genius is learn to use the knowledge of the past. These companies had a woeful past and a cursory look at the financials would have sufficed to know this.
Yes, there will be some companies where the knowledge of the past may not work, But it will be more an exception rather than the rule.
And you can’t construct a portfolio using exceptions.
So, make it a rule that you will not invest in companies that have a big loss-making history even if it is being offered at attractive valuations and promises a very bright future.
It will save you from a lot of trouble in the stock market.
Almost always use the knowledge of the past. Trust me, you’ll look like a genius even when you are really just doing the most obvious thing an investor needs to do.
Loved the following quote from famous author Robert Greene posted in his Twitter account.
“Learn to use the knowledge of the past and you will look like a genius, even when you are really just a clever borrower.”
I reason I liked it because it can save you from big losses in the stock market.
Let me explain how.
Will you invest in a company that has made a cumulative loss of almost Rs 2,000 crores over the last five years, with not a single profit-making year?
Hmmm…may be depends on the valuations you might say.
Well, what if the stock is available at a price to sales multiple of a whopping 40x?
A loss-making stock with an absurd valuation? You’d reject it outright, wouldn’t you?
Let’s take another example.
This is another loss-making stock, racking up cumulative losses of more than Rs 4 thousand crores and once again, not a single profitable year in the last four years.
The valuations? Yet again, a whopping price to sales ratio in the region of 30x.
Now, what if I tell you only a few months back, investors were falling head over heels in order to make an investment in these stocks. Sounds unbelievable, isn’t it?
However, it is true. These financials are of none other than Paytm and Zomato. The stocks that have destroyed enormous wealth for shareholders over the past few weeks with no respite in sight.
The reason investors fell for them is because they forgot the important lesson I have highlighted at the top of this post.
All they had to do to look like a genius is learn to use the knowledge of the past. These companies had a woeful past and a cursory look at the financials would have sufficed to know this.
Yes, there will be some companies where the knowledge of the past may not work, But it will be more an exception rather than the rule.
And you can’t construct a portfolio using exceptions.
So, make it a rule that you will not invest in companies that have a big loss-making history even if it is being offered at attractive valuations and promises a very bright future.
It will save you from a lot of trouble in the stock market.
Almost always use the knowledge of the past. Trust me, you’ll look like a genius even when you are really just doing the most obvious thing an investor needs to do.
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Hi, came across this tweet today morning:
Did you know?
Coca-cola's (NYSE: KO) stock price increased from USD 2.4 in Jul'88 to USD 43 in Jul'98 (18x)
However, in the last 22 years, the stock price has moved up only 40% to USD 60
Learning - Almost none of the stocks are to be held forever
Did you know?
Coca-cola's (NYSE: KO) stock price increased from USD 2.4 in Jul'88 to USD 43 in Jul'98 (18x)
However, in the last 22 years, the stock price has moved up only 40% to USD 60
Learning - Almost none of the stocks are to be held forever
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Is it the right learning?
Lets find out.
July 88, the US benchmark index S&P 500 was around 270 levels.
Right now, it is at 4543.
This translates into a gain of 16.8x
How has Coke done during the same period?
July 88, the share price was around Rs 2.7.
Right now it is 61.5.
This translates into a gain of 22.8x
So, on a price performance basis, Coke has outperforned the benchmark index.
Plus, don't forget the dividends and buybacks that Coke must have done during this period. The smart investor that Buffett is, he must have certainly put dividends received from Coke to good use.
Thus, Coke has proven to be a tremendous buy for Warren Buffett.
My learning is there are stocks that can be held on for a very, very long time provided you have the smarts that Buffett and Munger have in identifying them and the discipline of a monk to not just wait for the right price but also to hold them through thick and thin.
Lets find out.
July 88, the US benchmark index S&P 500 was around 270 levels.
Right now, it is at 4543.
This translates into a gain of 16.8x
How has Coke done during the same period?
July 88, the share price was around Rs 2.7.
Right now it is 61.5.
This translates into a gain of 22.8x
So, on a price performance basis, Coke has outperforned the benchmark index.
Plus, don't forget the dividends and buybacks that Coke must have done during this period. The smart investor that Buffett is, he must have certainly put dividends received from Coke to good use.
Thus, Coke has proven to be a tremendous buy for Warren Buffett.
My learning is there are stocks that can be held on for a very, very long time provided you have the smarts that Buffett and Munger have in identifying them and the discipline of a monk to not just wait for the right price but also to hold them through thick and thin.
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Hi, checkout my colleague Richa Agarwal's latest Youtube video on Optionality- Finding the Next Infoedge. Optionality is generated from an investment which has the potential to give huge returns, but the quantum of it cannot be ascertained. One can arrive at a fair value only over a period of time. Not to mention that such investments come with their fair share of risks. While there is the risk of entire investment amounting to nothing, when done right, optionality can lead to disproportionate pay offs. To know more about the opportunities, watch the video here.
Also, don’t forget to subscribe to our Youtube channel for more such updates.
Also, don’t forget to subscribe to our Youtube channel for more such updates.
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Loved these visuals. A great way to kick start your day!!
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Forwarded from India Revival with Tanushree Banerjee
The Tata group may have multiplied their investment in the stock 233 times since 2002.
Just as individual investors are keen to get invested in high potential startups…so are large corporates.
Turns out that some very well run bluechips have already taken the next step of finding startups.
They look for companies that suit the megatrends they wish to ride. And have been buying stakes in them.
Also, there is no denying that these large corporates can do far better due diligence of the startups especially from the technology and R&D perspective than we as individual investors can.
So how do you look for such companies? Watch this video to find out… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwx00yTuMNk
Just as individual investors are keen to get invested in high potential startups…so are large corporates.
Turns out that some very well run bluechips have already taken the next step of finding startups.
They look for companies that suit the megatrends they wish to ride. And have been buying stakes in them.
Also, there is no denying that these large corporates can do far better due diligence of the startups especially from the technology and R&D perspective than we as individual investors can.
So how do you look for such companies? Watch this video to find out… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwx00yTuMNk
YouTube
Safest Way to Profit from Unlisted Stocks I Tanushree Banerjee I Technology Stocks
Get free access to our latest research idea instantly. Visit: http://www.eqtm.in/i7D9C
The Tata group may have multiplied their investment in the stock 233 times since 2002.
Just as individual investors are keen to get invested in high potential startups…so…
The Tata group may have multiplied their investment in the stock 233 times since 2002.
Just as individual investors are keen to get invested in high potential startups…so…
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Hi, the Exponential Profits report for this month is now out.
It has been mailed to your email ids registered with us.
Please check your mailboxes for accessing the same.
The key highlights include a SELL recommendation on an existing open position, locking in gains of more than 120% and this month's brand new recommendation.
It has been mailed to your email ids registered with us.
Please check your mailboxes for accessing the same.
The key highlights include a SELL recommendation on an existing open position, locking in gains of more than 120% and this month's brand new recommendation.
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Here’s a note on the latest status of the ransomeware attack on Equitymaster - https://www.equitymaster.com/
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We have also posted a detailed FAQ on the status of our Portfolio Tracker. Please access here - https://www.equitymaster.com/portfolio/faq.asp
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The big-bang corporate news of the day is the merger between HDFC and HDFC Bank.
Even as my colleague and our in-house banking expert Tanushree Banerjee takes an in-depth look at the deal, here’s my broad quantitative view on it.
You see, over the last 10 years, HDFC Bank Ltd has traded at a premium of 55% to the market cap of HDFC Ltd.
This is in perfect sync with the swap ratio decided by the management of both the companies. HDFC Bank Ltd will have to dilute 55% of its equity in order to merge HDFC with itself. Thus, the deal seems to be value neutral if one considers the market prices for the last 10 years.
However, over the last 3 and 5 years, the gap between the two has widened.
Mr Market has given an 80% premium to HDFC Bank over HDFC Ltd on an average.
If one considers this premium of 80% then HDFC Ltd shareholders should have gotten only 36 shares of HDFC Bank versus the 42 that they will get for their 25 shares on account of the merger.
This difference of 16% could also be because of the increased synergies between the two companies post the merger and the management wanted to reward HDFC Ltd shareholders in advance for it.
So, is the deal value accretive to HDFC Bank shareholders? Will the benefits of merging HDFC Ltd with itself be significantly higher than the slightly greater dilution it has agreed to?
I do think so. Let’s see what my colleague Tanushree has to say about this. Watch out for her note in your mailbox later today.
Even as my colleague and our in-house banking expert Tanushree Banerjee takes an in-depth look at the deal, here’s my broad quantitative view on it.
You see, over the last 10 years, HDFC Bank Ltd has traded at a premium of 55% to the market cap of HDFC Ltd.
This is in perfect sync with the swap ratio decided by the management of both the companies. HDFC Bank Ltd will have to dilute 55% of its equity in order to merge HDFC with itself. Thus, the deal seems to be value neutral if one considers the market prices for the last 10 years.
However, over the last 3 and 5 years, the gap between the two has widened.
Mr Market has given an 80% premium to HDFC Bank over HDFC Ltd on an average.
If one considers this premium of 80% then HDFC Ltd shareholders should have gotten only 36 shares of HDFC Bank versus the 42 that they will get for their 25 shares on account of the merger.
This difference of 16% could also be because of the increased synergies between the two companies post the merger and the management wanted to reward HDFC Ltd shareholders in advance for it.
So, is the deal value accretive to HDFC Bank shareholders? Will the benefits of merging HDFC Ltd with itself be significantly higher than the slightly greater dilution it has agreed to?
I do think so. Let’s see what my colleague Tanushree has to say about this. Watch out for her note in your mailbox later today.
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